Let’s Talk About Slow Sex: A Chat With Isabelle Deslauriers of Désirables
Montréal-based Isabelle Deslauriers (she/her) is the designer and founder of Désirables, a company focused on building intimacy both with ourselves and our partners.
When you think about mindfulness — consciously and purposefully bringing yourself to focus on the present — you often associate it with a clear headspace, sense of peace, and deepened awareness of bodily sensations. Using these techniques to foster mindful intimacy (and thus, mindful sex) with both yourself and, eventually, your partner, can help you learn how to explore your bodies in a more physical and emotional way. As a result, your connection will further develop, and your relationship will strengthen.
The same goes for slow sex. But how do you achieve mindfulness and enjoy slow sex?
Today, we have Isabelle Deslauriers, founder and designer of Montréal-based Désirables, to talk to us about slow and mindful sex.
You can save 10% on your entire first order from Désirables when you use the code BETWEEN10 at checkout!
Here is the transcript of our podcast interview below. You can also download or stream the audio podcast here!
Between Our Thighs: When you think about mindfulness — consciously and purposefully bringing yourself to focus on the present — you often associate it with a clear headspace, a sense of peace, and a deepened awareness of bodily sensations. Using these techniques to foster mindful intimacy and, thus, mindful sex, with both yourself and, eventually, your partner, can help you learn to explore your bodies in a more physical and emotional way. As a result, your connection will further develop, and your relationship will strengthen.
The same goes for slow sex. But how do you achieve mindfulness and enjoy slow sex?
Today, we have Isabelle Deslauriers, founder and designer of Montréal-based Désirables, to talk about how slow and mindful sex can be incorporated into your life!
Before we jump in, we wanted to offer a special discount to our [readers]. You can save 10% on your entire first order from Désirables when you use the code BETWEEN10 at checkout on www.desirables.ca.
Hi, Isabelle! How are you doing?
Isabelle Deslauriers: I'm doing fine, you?
BOT: I'm good, thank you! Did you want to tell us a little bit about yourself (where you're currently working out of, what you do)?
Isabelle: As many of you must be doing, I'm currently out [of] my house. [Laughs]
BOT: [Laughs]
Isabelle: So, my name is Isabelle Deslauriers. I'm the founder of Désirables Expérience Design, mostly known by "Désirables." I'm an industrial designer by trade and I'm a dildo maker by choice, I guess!
We design great porcelain intimate accessories for people who need to reconnect with their sexuality. And I'm from Montréal, Canada!
BOT: Another Canadian. [Laughs]
Isabelle: Yes, it's still cold, we're still confined, and that's pretty much it for now. [Laughs]
BOT: And what inspired you to launch Désirables?
Isabelle: It was actually a dare.
BOT: Really?
Isabelle: Yeah, back when I was at university in industrial design. I always watched and read design newsletters and I always saw poorly designed products, especially on the market for sex toys. I was always challenging them, telling my friends that they were ugly, badly made, and that they were greenwashing us. It's not because you do a dildo in the shape of a leaf that it's eco. It doesn't mean that it's a better choice; you still have batteries in it and everything.
We have a program of four years, and at the end of the third year, some of my friends dared me to do my final year project on sex toys, which had never been done at the school before. I tried it. Actually, I asked my dad, "Would you mind if I do sex toys, because you're helping me through school." And he was actually saying to me, "Yeah, no, it's a great idea for a business! There's a big market for sex toys, so go ahead. Do your thing, and we'll see after."
BOT: Wow!
Isabelle: Yeah, and it started this way, but when I was doing the project, I saw so many problems in the industry and problems that were deeper and had more consequence than just aesthetic problems. I decided that the best way for me to change the market was to become a manufacturer myself.
BOT: And you've done a really great job with that!
Isabelle: Thank you!
BOT: No problem. Did you want to tell us a little bit about what you guys offer?
Isabelle: Yeah, sure! We started with the two products I designed, actually, in my final year project, which are an intimate explorer, as we call it. For most of you, it's a dildo made for G-spots. We prefer calling it 'intimate explorer,' because it's really the purpose for which it was made. We also do ceramic massage stones. It's a set of three stones that were designed to help people give better massages, because massages are [a] great way to reconnect with your body and with your partner's body.
Most people, their hands get tired really, really quickly when they do massages because they don't have the proper technique.
BOT: Mhmm.
Isabelle: With the stones, what we wanted to do was relieve the pressure that most people put on their bones and that is really the shape of the stones, that will come and release the muscle. So, [these] were our first two products.
We added organic massage oil and organic massage candles to our shop also, [over the] years. We designed, also, eye masks to play with your senses, because we're big on sensate focus; which is used by sexologues [sex therapists] to help you reconnect with your bodies. It's a bit on the same track as mindful sexuality. You have to reconnect with your five senses in order to really be present and enjoy the moment. With the eye mask, we were playing with your sense of view and with the massage candles and the massage oil, we were playing more with your sense of smell, because we developed our own perfume for that.
I was really, really tired of smelling like strawberry or chocolate, which smells great when you're having dessert, but after a twenty-minute massage, mostly makes you nauseous.
BOT: Yeah, I agree. [Laughs]
Isabelle: So, we developed [a] perfume that was citrusy and a bit woodsy, with a hint of ylang-ylang, just to make it a bit more sexy.
BOT: Yeah, so it's a more sensual massage, as opposed to a tasty one. [Laughs]
Isabelle: Exactly! You know, it's supposed to be sensual, not your dessert. [Laughs]
BOT: Yeah. [Laughs] And on that note, we were going to talk about slow sex today. Did you want to explain a little bit what slow sex is and why it's important?
Isabelle: Absolutely! So, slow sex is inspired by the movement of slow food, which was triggered by the rise of all the fast-food chains. People wanted to really change this habit and take the time to really enjoy what they were eating. It's the same principle for sex; instead of using your vibrator to have an orgasm in one minute, you really take time and plan time ahead to live, fully, your sexuality and your sexual moment with your partner or with yourself. Actually, it's great for both.
It's also very close to mindful sex and sensate focus. Really, it's been kind of ingrained in our mission from day one, because we do products without vibration. We really wanted people to take an active part in their pleasure, not just going to your bed, start your vibrator, and come off.
BOT: Yeah.
Isabelle: It is great sometimes, don't get me wrong, but it's not as fulfilling as if you take your time. For me, it's the difference between having fast-food and having a seven-course meal.
BOT: [Laughs] Yes!
Isabelle: Both get [you fed], but it's not the same experience at all. [Laughs]
BOT: It's true!
Isabelle: Slow sex is really taking your time and making sure that you are connected to what you're feeling. I think it's especially useful in this day and age, because most people are in a hurry. They try, but they often disconnect from themselves and their partners.
BOT: Mhmm.
Isabelle: So, let's say I'll think about my grocery list when I'm having sex, just because I'm not present. We don't usually have the tools to reconnect ourselves, if you don't practise mindfulness, let's say, in your yoga practice.
BOT: So, slow sex would, then, strengthen a relationship in many ways.
Isabelle: Yes, because you take the time. You're just not there superficially, you really are connecting with your partner. You can take time to speak or, for slow sex also, it's not always about penetration, so you can just have a sensual massage and that's it for the day. Even just a cuddle session, but you really [have to] plan to put this time in your calendar. It's one of the practices of slow sex, it's that you reserve this time in your calendar.
It's great, also, for people with kids. When you have date nights or anything, so they can really make time for their sexuality and have a quality sex life.
BOT: And then there's also that focus on mutual pleasure. If you're setting aside the time, then you can focus on each other, and that probably leads to increased chances of orgasm and just an overall higher sense of enjoyment.
Isabelle: Yeah, enjoyment is really the goal, especially in slow sex. You know, if you actively search for the orgasm every time, then, sadly, it's the worst way to reach orgasm. If you're concentrating on reaching orgasm, you're not concentrating on the moment, and you're putting what we call 'performance pressure' on yourself.
BOT: Mhmm.
Isabelle: Really, it's just trying to focus on the enjoyment of the moment, more than anything else.
BOT: For sure.
Isabelle: And, of course, orgasm will come more easily, but try not to think about it. [Laugh]
BOT: Yeah, it's more about being in the moment.
Isabelle: Exactly.
BOT: And how can a person practise slow sex with their partner?
Isabelle: What I would start with is planning a date. It can be every week, every two weeks. It can be every month, if your sexual desire is at this level. Then, what I would do, is light a candle, start some slow music, and really make the most of your moment. Maybe put on some lingerie. I would start with some massage because, sometimes, it's a lot less threatening than intercourse.
BOT: Yeah.
Isabelle: You [can] go from there for the hour, hour and a half, you've planned in your agenda.
BOT: What would your tips be for achieving that total sense of sensuality, whether it's edge play or edging to prolong orgasm, whatever it is?
Isabelle: Definitely start with your mindset, because sexual pleasure eighty percent comes from the brain. So, you have to really focus on how you're feeling. Let's say you have a date planned for tonight; you put sexy lingerie [on] at the beginning of the day and, even if you're staying in the same house, you can send each other sexy texts. Even if you're in the same house, you need to make this foreplay. Then edge play; edging is a great way to achieving this.
'Edging' is when you [are] almost at the orgasm, and then you slowly decrease the amount of excitement, just to make sure that you don't reach the orgasm all the way. What it will do is that when you will reach orgasm, after maybe one or two retreats, the orgasm will be so much more heightened, just because you've accumulated all this energy.
BOT: And then you get to release it all at once. [Laughs]
Isabelle: Yes! [Laughs]
BOT: A person, like you mentioned, can practise slow sex during solo play.
Isabelle: Oh yeah, definitely. I would start with solo play, just to make sure that you are really mindful. It's always stressful to be with somebody, because you need to be attentive to their needs, you want to feel and appear sexy for them, but when you're alone, you really have only yourself to please. You can concentrate on your pleasure first and be in the moment. After practice, you can be in the moment with somebody else.
BOT: How do you find, personally (if you don't mind sharing), how you can introspect and discover your own sense of pleasure through this slow solo play?
Isabelle: For me, it's been really [about] a rediscovering of my sexuality, because in my early twenties, I was completely disconnected from my sexual self.
BOT: Mhmm.
Isabelle: You really need to try new things. I would start with typical things that you see, either sex toys [like] vibrators, manual masturbation, and then you can try things differently every week and see what works for you and what doesn't. So, let's say, you can try also [experimenting] with smell, with porno, because there's great porno made by women for women. Feminist porno.
BOT: Yes, ethical porn!
Isabelle: Yeah, ethical porn! So, those are great options because women won't respond so well to visual stimuli, but to sounds, we will respond very well. Better than men! So, it can be also sexual stories, sexual podcasts. There's a lot of options now, on the market; a lot more than ten years ago. You can really try a lot different things; you can try temperature play, different sensations, you can even change your sheets and put [on] cotton sheets or satin. It doesn't always have to be so sexy, it can be just really comfortable. It is nice too, in the winter. [Laughs]
BOT: [Laughs]
Isabelle: So, yeah, I would really try different things and maybe even keep a journal with you to map your explorations and see where it does take you and what you like, what you don't like. This way, you're more in the research kind of mindset.
BOT: Yeah.
Isabelle: You'll really be in-tune to all your senses and how you're feeling, instead of, you know, "I want to reach orgasm and I want to reach it now!" [Laughs]
BOT: [Laughs] Yes!
Isabelle: You're really much more, "Okay, how does that make me feel? Oh, yeah!" and, "How does that breathing technique make me feel?" You'll be more connected to what you're feeling, instead of what you're trying to achieve. It's in the journey, not the destination.
BOT: That's so interesting! I have an app on my phone that I've had since I was in high school, for forever, and I use it to keep track of my periods.
Isabelle: Mhmm!
BOT: I started using it, once I started having sex. There's a little notes section and I started putting in [things] like, "These are the positions that we did" and "This is how I felt," and now I can look back and say, "Oh, I think I want to do that again or try this again but tweaked a little bit." It's done wonders.
Isabelle: Yeah, and it's a great idea! And just so you know, so our listeners know, it's normal that what you like and what you don't like, practices change through life. Whether it be after pregnancy or hormonal changes, or even in different relationships. It's good to keep track and just realize that it's normal that even your libido can change; just don't be afraid [of] it. It's normal!
If, for you, it doesn't feel comfortable, then seek professional help. Other than that, it's a great way to see how you changed as a sexual person through the years.
BOT: Yeah, even things like birth control or certain medications can affect the libido, as well.
Isabelle: Yeah, definitely. I saw in the journal [newspaper] that anti-depressants were on the ride in Canada and in Québec, so definitely, it will affect you and your sexual self, also.
BOT: Yeah, and I guess that's even more important to do that solo play and to rediscover yourself before you can expect a better sexual relationship with your partner. You need to know what you're looking for, as well.
Isabelle: Oh, definitely! If you don't know what you want, how can you expect your partner to know it? It goes in two ways: you need to know what you want and you need to be able to communicate it to your partner.
BOT: Yes.
Isabelle: They cannot just guess what you like and how you like it, because there are so many different practices, that it's just... A great example is How I Met Your Mother! So, Ted is sure that Robin likes to be stroked on the knee and only the left knee, but she faking [it] to please her other boyfriend, and she had to admit that, "No, I don't like being stroked on the knee! It doesn't do it for me. I just never told him, because he seemed to enjoy it." And Ted is coaching her new boyfriend, so this is a great example of communication. If you don't like it, just say, "Eh, it doesn't do it for me, but you can try it there!" [Laughs]
BOT: [Laughs] Communication is key!
Isabelle: Oh yeah, definitely. If you want a great sexual life, communication is definitely the best way to achieve it. If you don't try to seek what you like for yourself, then you have nothing to communicate.
BOT: It's true! Do you think that the Dalia would help with learning that element of slow sex in solo play?
Isabelle: Oh, yes, because it's really a hands-on approach. We designed it, actually, to help [people] really discover their vaginas and their vulvas. When I was doing my research for my project, I stumbled upon a statistic — they were doing a statistical analysis at universities with university students, and twenty-six percent of the males didn't know where the clitoris was and twenty-nine percent of the university-educated women didn't know where their clitoris was.
BOT: Wow.
Isabelle: So, more men than women knew where it was! For me, it was really mind-boggling, and I was like, "Yeah, we need to give them an opportunity, a tool, to really discover their bodies," and for me, the G-spot is such [an] unseen and weird spot to find, that it's really the best way to really discover all of your body. The G-spot the very personal, so the Dalia is a great way to achieve that and can be, also, paired with the massage stones to discover the rest of your body. Depending on your arousal level and...
BOT: Erogenous zones?
Isabelle: Erogenous zones, yes! [Laughs] Other erogenous zones will appear, depending on your level of excitation.
BOT: And you can also, then, incorporate the Dalia into play with your partner.
Isabelle: Oh, yeah! I think it's a great tool for your partner; we had a lot of testimonies from partners, because they used to have difficulties reaching the G-spot, because of the spot and also because of the size of the fingers. The G-spot is really a matter of size — it can be quite small.
The great thing about the Dalia is that the Dalia is kind of stiff. I wouldn't say hard, [but] it holds its shape, since it's made of porcelain. [Laughs]
BOT: Yes. [Laughs]
Isabelle: It will apply perfect pressure on the G-spot. It can be very narrow on one hand, so even if you have a tiny G-spot, it will pressure it like a glove and it's really easy to use with your partner. The best way is to do it one time yourself, so your partner can see how to use it, and after that, they just have to take it in-hand and it's almost right to the spot.
BOT: And that's sensual in and of itself, watching your partner use it on themselves. Watching your partner masturbate themselves.
Isabelle: Oh yeah, it's great. For a lot of people, it's very arousing.
BOT: Yeah. If anyone wanted to read more about using the Dalia in couple's play, they could read, on our blog, the recent blog post, "The Best Sex Toys for Couples." That has links to your website and to the products — it has everything!
Isabelle: Also, I think what makes it great for partners is that they don't feel like they're not needed, because they're the ones handling the toy. It's not just vibrations.
BOT: Yes.
Isabelle: They need to participate to make sure that you have pleasure.
BOT: There needs to be that technique.
Isabelle: Yeah! The shape is really noon-threatening for men; it's not so huge that they feel inferior and the shape is not the same as a penis, so it works for both of them really [well], usually.
BOT: How would you say mindful sex — you've mentioned 'mindful sex,' previously while we were talking — how is mindful sex different than slow sex?
Isabelle: Slow sex is really concentrated on the principle of taking things slow; you want to take as much time as you can, just to really concentrate on the feelings, whereas mindful is really about being mindful and a bit more spiritual, I guess, in your sexuality. I would say it like that.
So, for me, mindful sex is really being present, but it could be being present for ten minutes, instead of an hour and a half. You can play more, too, with your breathing techniques. It can enhance your pleasure, so it's a really sensate yoga practice for me; it's a lot in-synch with my yoga practice, but it's more spiritual, in a way.
BOT: It's meditative.
Isabelle: Yeah, exactly.
BOT: And how can a person, do you think, act more mindfully during their sexual acts? How could they master the art of this sexual technique?
Isabelle: One of the great ways is with your breathing, so you can help your brain process more information. The other way is with the five senses, so you'll try to concentrate on what you hear, what you smell. This way, you can be really in the present moment. So yeah, it's really, really close to slow sex for me; it's not a great difference between the two. Even sensate focus, for me, is just, maybe, [about] what term is more popular at the moment. 'Sensate focus' was more popular in the nineties and 'slow sex' was maybe more popular in the early 2000s, and 'mindful sex' will be more popular these days.
I saw that Emily Morse, the sex educator, just started a master class on Masterclass.
BOT: Yes!
Isabelle: One of her plans is on mindful sex, actually.
BOT: So, that's the 'new wave' of sexual technique.
Isabelle: Yeah, it's like design thinking in business.
BOT: [Laughs]
Isabelle: You have waves of new fashions and it's more or less the same thing, usually. It's going to be close, but it's just where we are as a society and what term we'll use the most.
BOT: So, this is the hot term for right now, for 2021. [Laughs]
Isabelle: Yeah, I think so. Yeah!
BOT: Would you agree that mindfulness during sex, or slow sex, is good not just during penetration per se, but also as foreplay, post-orgasm, or even just [when] flirting with your partner?
Isabelle: Oh, definitely. For me, sexuality is not just when you're having penetrative relationships, it's really everything that goes — flirting, préliminaires [foreplay]. You should try to apply it as much as you can to every part of your sexual self, whether it's when you try lingerie and you just try to capture this moment when you feel sexy and when you feel like another version of yourself. You can also be mindful and present when you're reaching orgasm, just to feel, "What is this kind of tingling in my toes, or the legs?" Are you laughing? If yes, be present and mindful that you're having fun during sex, which is a great way to have sex!
BOT: Yes, for sure! How would you bring it up to your partner? About having the discussion of, "Let's have more mindful sex. Let's have more slow sex."
Isabelle: I'm more of a daring person, so I would make this more of a game than anything else at first, that's me and that's my relationship. Other ways would be — great ways to bring this up would be — to watch movies about sexual topics or maybe try reading a book and then your partner will see that you have this book open. You could [also] just say, "Hey, I've read this in this book, would you be open to trying it?" The best way to bring it up is not to say, "Our sexual relationship sucks, so I want to [try something else]." [Laughs]
BOT: [Laughs]
Isabelle: It's not a great way to [address] it. I would really just, maybe, say, "Do you want to try new things?" Because we're humans, we always want to try new things.
Maybe you could say, "A friend told me about this practice and it really worked for [them] to reach orgasm, and I was just curious about it, so maybe you could try?" I would go at it this way, because it's always difficult, especially if you don't have this great communication around sex. Sex can contain a lot of shame for a lot of us, and it can be difficult to talk about, but if you bring it [up] lightly and with no pressure, it's already a good way to go [about it].
BOT: And getting comfortable with talking to your partner about sex can be life-changing! It can be a big game-changer for your relationship.
Isabelle: Oh, yes. Yeah, definitely. If he or she is not comfortable with it, you can also ask, "Do you mind if I try this alone, just to see how it feels?" But, the best thing you can give your relationship is great communication, especially about sexuality.
BOT: For sure. Are there other ways that you believe couples can bring more passion into their relationships, besides slow or mindful sex? It could be sexual, non-sexual things, things that can be done daily, things that you can do every once in a while.
Isabelle: From my point of view, one of the great things is [to] have a life that you love outside of your sexual self.
BOT: Mhmm.
Isabelle: Also, be healthy. You don't have to [be] a hundred pounds, that's not what I mean by "healthy," but when you feel great in your body, you're going to have a great sexual sense of yourself. It's always good because you're not ashamed of your body, of who you are. Self-worth is a big part of how you will approach sexuality.
If you have issues, you can always go and find some help either online or with a professional; either with a sexologue [sex therapist] or a psychologue [psychologist], psychotherapist and sexologist. So, you can find help and seek help, because sometimes you have issues that, even if you tried to work [on them] by yourself, you can have deeper issues. You can have trauma, you can have PTSD from sex aggression. There are a lot of things that can come between you and a great sexual life, so seek help if you can and if you need to.
Really, for me, a great sense of self-worth is really important, because if you feel beautiful, it will show in your sexual life, definitely.
BOT: And that would go for whatever gender that you identify as.
Isabelle: Oh, yes, definitely.
BOT: That feeling of being beautiful and radiating it.
Isabelle: Your best self!
BOT: Exactly.
Isabelle: At the moment. [Laughs]
BOT: [Laughs] Yes. And in terms of mindfulness practice, how could people practise it in the every day, in a non-sexual way? I know you mentioned that you do yoga and I have mentioned meditation, but what do you think are other ways that you could be mindful in a non-sexual way?
Isabelle: Yeah, yoga and meditation are [two] of the best ways to be mindful. Also, there's a [trend] that I think is called 'mindful walking.' You just go and walk into the city, or your neighbourhood, or in nature, and you walk and take impressions of everything that is around you: the sounds, the colours, the smells. Is there water near? What are the colours of the leaves when the sun goes through them? What is the colour of the snow in the morning? It's really being mindful in your environment, in general.
it can be quite difficult to achieve from the start if you're just running from nine to five and the only time you have for yourself is your coffee break.
BOT: Yeah.
Isabelle: During the afternoon, because you day is that crazy. So, maybe start with yoga or meditation; guided meditation can help a lot. Start, maybe, with just five minutes and then your brain will be accustomed to taking more notice of what is around you.
BOT: It's interesting you say that — the walking meditation — I had never even considered that as an option. I used to go for walks downtown, in downtown Toronto, and I would... I guess it was a meditative walk, because those were the things I would notice. I would use it as a way to decompress on my breaks between school — I went to school downtown, I worked downtown.
Isabelle: Yeah!
BOT: Yeah, it was a great way to decompress. I mean, I haven't done it during COVID, so it's been about a year.
Isabelle: Yeah.
BOT: But, yeah! It's such a great way to really just focus on the 'here and now.'
Isabelle: For me, I do it sometimes with music, just because music calms me a lot. I'll put on my headphones and just pay attention to what I see visually; the wind and things like that. It's all so great, because you're moving your body [and] it gives you more oxygen to the brain. For me, a meditative walk is a great way.
Also, if you need to walk, absolutely. Just take this time to meditate, because you might not have any more time in your day.
BOT: Yeah, and these are even things your partner could join in with you on, if they wanted to. Just kind of going for a quiet walk or doing yoga together, meditating together.
Isabelle: Or you could even do cloud watching. [Laughs]
BOT: Oh, yes!
Isabelle: You just sit on the grass and look at the clouds in the — let's say — summer, because winter can be pretty harsh.
BOT: Too cold, yeah!
Isabelle: Yeah, it might be too cold, but in the summer you can do this. You don't want to be in a meditative state when you're driving, that's for sure.
BOT: [Laughs] No.
Isabelle: So, a walk or picnic in the park is a great way to do it.
BOT: Yeah, for sure.
Isabelle: There's a lot of good books out there. I don't have them right beside me at this moment, but I could give you some of them by email, so you can add [them] to the notes of this podcast.
BOT: For sure!
Isabelle: There's one by Dr. Lori Brotto, she's a gynecologist back in B.C. and she specializes in mindful sex, especially for rape victims and cancer survivors, when they try to reconnect with their sexuality. She uses mindful sex for that.
BOT: Yeah, that would be great! I can link it in the description of the podcast.
Isabelle: And there's also a lot of blogs and things like that about mindful masturbation. It's becoming more and more in fashion, so you'll have more information on the net. Maybe more 1-2-3 steps on how to do a mindful masturbation session.
BOT: Yeah, and I think even now, that people are becoming more sex-positive, it's easier to talk to your friends about it and say, like, "Hey, what are you doing to achieve this?"
Isabelle: Yes!
BOT: Comparing notes, so to speak.
Isabelle: Yeah, or Instagram, also. You can follow your favourite blogger and ask [them] on Instagram, because it's a bit less intimate, but it's still good because you're in a closed vase. There's a lot of good sex education on Instagram, actually.
BOT: Yeah, actually, a lot of people have reached out over Instagram to the Between Our Thighs account with questions and I think a lot of people feel intimidated to ask people face-to-face, where when it's over social media, it's almost easier. You're not face-to-face with somebody and it's less daunting.
Isabelle: Oh yeah, definitely. Just because we show ourselves, kind of, as people in this industry, a lot of people will feel more comfortable, too. I've had a lot of questions too, even face-to-face, across the years, from young boys who had questions to older women in their seventies [and] eighties that wanted to tell me about how they reached their G-spot in their ate fifties. [Laughs]
BOT: Wow!
Isabelle: Just because we're in this very special industry, in this special time, people are a lot more at ease to speak with us about those topics that they wouldn't speak to [with] any stranger about, but us, it's no problem! [Laughs]
BOT: [Laughs] It's a little easier.
Isabelle: "You must be a pro! You're [making] dildos!" Yeah, I'm doing my best. I'm not a certified sex educator, but I'll give you the info I have.
BOT: Yeah, and I think that sex is such a natural part of our lives, but we don't talk about it. We're almost made to, often, feel ashamed about it, when it's completely natural and it's something that most of us do.
Isabelle: Yeah, and a lack of sexual education can bring a lot of issues.
BOT: Definitely.
Isabelle: For me, sexual education is not just how [not] to get pregnant and how [not] to catch STIs. It's a lot more. It's how you maintain your relationship with your partner, it's how you talk to them, how to consider gender or how gender can be fluid. It's a lot, a lot of things, and I think it's great that sexual education is coming back. Actually, in Québec, it's coming back. I don't know about Toronto, or in Ontario, [it seems like] there's quite some struggles with their political party.
BOT: Yes.
Isabelle: At least people can find it online now. [Laughs]
BOT: Yeah, for sure.
Isabelle: Just don't use porn! Don't use porn as sex ed.
BOT: No, please don't! [Laughs]
Isabelle: Or, at least, seek feminist porn, ethical porn. You'll see more diversity in it and a bit more of reality, but it's like comparing Hollywood to real life; it doesn't compare.
BOT: Exactly, exactly. On the note of sex-positivism, for Between Our Thighs, our ultimate goal is sex-positivism. Of course, the idea of sex-positivity takes on a different meaning for each person that hears it. What does it mean to you?
Isabelle: Oh, that's a good question, actually! Sex-positivity for me would be buying ads on Instagram and Facebook, which I can't do. [Laughs]
BOT: Yes!
Isabelle: Because you can see ads in bus stops about erectile dysfunction, but you will never — or will not soon see — any, any kind of publicity or information about female orgasm. So, for me, having the same level of awareness for female pleasure as you can have for male pleasure would be great [for] sex-positivity.
Pleasure, also, for people with disabilities, older people, people of colour — there's a lot more that can be done. So, Viagra can go away, because I'm tired of seeing ads for erectile dysfunction since 1995, but we cannot see any ads about vibrators for women or dildos for women because female masturbation should be a shame. [Laughs]
No, really, for me, positivity would be to see all the possibilities of sex [for] all kinds of people, coming from everywhere with every kind of life.
BOT: Mhmm.
Isabelle: This is it, for me.
BOT: How can somebody become more sex-positive?
Isabelle: I think one of the great ways is, actually, [to] see and realize where [is] your bias. If you're white, cisgender, heterosexual, you need to know that this is your mindset, but you need to see that and try to seek information from other points of view, other than yourself. You can go online [to] groups for LGBTQ, you can read more books on gender and how gender is not fixed. There's a book — I'll find the name of the book and send it to you.
BOT: Okay, and I can link that, as well.
Isabelle: By living with people that come from other spheres of life, you can also see what can be difficult for them. Really just keep an open mind and know that you are biased every time you think of something, because you come from a certain point of view and there are thousands [of] other points of view that you need to account for.
BOT: That's so well said. It's so true!
Isabelle: If you're wrong, because sometimes we are — when we started the Dalia, we called it a "female explorer," or "explorer for ladies," and a couple of our clients wrote to us and said, "I don't identify as a lady, so this is a bit obtuse from you."
BOT: Yeah.
Isabelle: So, we changed it and, of course, we said we were sorry, but it can happen. You can make mistakes, it's okay, but you need to realize that you're not a perfect human, nobody is, [but] you need to change your ways from that point on, because you now have that information.
BOT: Exactly. With that information now, you can shift your mindset going forward.
Isabelle: Exactly.
BOT: Do you have any concluding thoughts?
Isabelle: I'm just really, really happy and glad that there's so much more sex-positivity and sex education in Canada. We've seen the rise, more and more, about great education and content like yours in the past years.
BOT: Oh, thank you.
Isabelle: We've been in the market for the last eight and eight years ago, there wasn't a lot of information out there and there wasn't a lot of great content. You know, a visually appealing platform, also, because if it's ugly, you won't come back. [Laughs]
Unless you're an engineer, then you don't mind, but — [Laughs] I make jokes [about] engineers because all the rest of my family are engineers. So, sorry if any engineers are listening to this podcast, we don't have anything against you, it's just funny!
BOT: [Laughs]
Isabelle: So yeah, I'm just really so glad that there's so much more information coming out and a lot more people in this market, in this industry. One of our missions is to bring more information to people via our product, but we're mainly a manufacturer, so we're a bit limited in what we can do. That's why we like, so much, to collaborate with brands like yours, because we can reach and change the lives of more people with great education.
BOT: And it's so important.
Isabelle: And made in Canada!
BOT: Yes, Canadian brands!
Isabelle: Canadian brands!
BOT: I think it's so important to collaborate with — exactly — with like-minded people, and I have a soft spot for Canadians, being Canadian. So, yes. Collaborating with people that share the same message is so important.
Isabelle: Oh yeah. We did a podcast in Australia a couple of weeks ago. I don't think it's out yet, it should be out pretty soon, but we love working with people all across the world. When we're working with Canadians, you can almost see the change near you, because it's in your country, instead of being across the world, where you see the sales, but we don't see the change.
BOT: Exactly! This is more visual when it's close to home.
Isabelle: Definitely. When we can get out of our apartments and our homes, maybe, who knows, we can go grab a coffee in Toronto!
BOT: I would love that!
Isabelle: And if you come to Montréal, we'll welcome you a lot of food and coffee. [Laughs]
BOT: Thank you! I would love to come meet you face-to-face in the new, normal world.
Isabelle: Yeah, the next world. [Laughs]
BOT: Yes. [Laughs] The life after this.
Isabelle: Yes.
BOT: Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast today and talking about slow sex and mindful sex, and the Dalia. It was so great talking to you.
Isabelle: It's been a real pleasure talking with you! I hope we do it again.
